Escargot Patent

Always interesting the questions that arise while learning. Thought you would be interested in an enquiry from Australia ….

I have come across a Thunderer whistle on UK ebay that appears to be very early. (ebay  150825…… ). It only has markings "The Thunderer Patent"set in an oblong box on the upper mouthpiece. I have searched the books but cannot come up with any information on that style of Thunderer. I would think that wording might indicate that a patent had been applied for but not yet granted, although they usually put "patent applied for"don't they.

'Good eye' Bob πŸ™‚ ( pun intended )

You are improving right along. This looks to be made to the earliest of Hudson's Glasgow patent. Happened right after the 6 piece MacDonald and Auld hit the market. That would date between 1891 and 1905. Whether this one falls in that period or not I can't tell. It may or may not have the word PATENT on it and still fall in that time period. No matter, the design is exactly the same !! They used the boxed stamp on and off early on till circa 1910. These are smaller than they look in the picture.

There are plenty to be found, nonetheless can be just as collectable and old as the heavy 5 and 6 piece oldest Glasgow designed whistles !!!

Originally I think that Black and Company used the block THUNDERER image. You may recall that Hudson didn't get exclusive rights to the Thunderer name for themselves until a much later date ( 1927 ). My guess is that they won that decision because they had run everyone out of business anyway !!! Regardless,  India was using it spelled correctly and incorrectly even in the 1940s

Postage shows as not free from where I am looking as you also mention, but maybe on your end. Personally I think it is priced too high if you take your time. Doesn't look to be the best of condition too if you are patient.

It is true that the three books on Whistles by Gilchrist are somewhat essential. Until at least more is available on the internet. Keep those questions coming !!!!

SPOTLIGHT research

put together a SPOTLIGHT for you in the interim waiting for the good stuff. πŸ™‚

I really want to get to that section again, but working out posting the pix still. So we put together everything we could think of today that can help you in your research.

Hope it saves you tons of time, but to be honest in all likelihood it will more than likely bury you !!! Welcome to my world. So you thought whistles were obscure ?? So you thought there just weren't that many whistles to learn about ???? HA !!!!!

It took the better part of the day to collate and write, just gotta upload in a bit….

What was nice is that I didn't have to worry about pictures in this one. What a relief. I really need to perfect that side of these SPOTLIGHTS — maybe after this weekend sale and during the winter…

Just have to do more research on this….

 

counter

love the counter on the website. Main reason ?? It puts pressure on me to get the website up and running. About 225 hits a day right now and climbing. That's a lot of action and interest to stay ahead of.

Looks to be up though doesn't it ?? But really it isn't really RUNNING until the whistles for sale are available. More importantly the SPOTLIGHT section needs to be rolling.so we can all be learning more.

HOWEVER the main setback is that I am still here !!! – WHAT ?? Yes, I never got to leave for the show in Calif. and now I am pushed back a week — ratz !!! Well, I guess that is not entirely true. Started and finished  the beauforts descriptions for the sale images. Got me going anyway. However I am still kinda packed to go in a few days so I don't want to take the whistles out to break them down.

Yeah, I am actually driving around with my whistes all packed in the car.

Well, lets see what I am taking with me…hmmmm….

A lot of Porteus top whistles, a few unusual ones like a spherical cycling whistle, a folding extractor whistle, quite a few older 1880s police whistles by Dowler, DeCourcy, Hudson, etc.. Oh and a BGI 601 1881 bullet whistle, some 6 piece escargots by Auld — even a very rare Barrall escargot whistle YUP for sale even !!! One very very nice nickel silver Metropolitan police whistle MP8. Lots of Walton police issues ( only made whistles himself about 6 years ya know ) Some Stevens whistles… I'm torn…do I sell them off for working capitol or price them too high to sell, so that I have them for the website to sell to all this interest ?????

So many whistles, so little time…

 

pix

do you take pix ?? No not copyrighted pix, but actual pictures ? With a camera.

So much easier these days with digital. Just snap them. Load them up to the computor. Crop them. Describe 'em amd voila !! Ready to go into a file.

Well, now you have to create file names I know. —  Like extractors, beauforts etc. etc…. But you have to find them again right ?? Don't want to plow thru 1000s ( yes you will have thousands eventually ) Oh, did I mention there are all those that you took from the internet to keep track of too ?? Gotta keep them seperate you know.

Man o Man starting to get complicated !!! What to do ??  How about this ?? Try keeping them TOTALLY seperate. Your whistle collection and the ones you want to keep track of for the future πŸ™‚

Mine are named Reference Collection ( original I know, thank you ) and all the personal pix I have 'borrowed' for personal use only — they are in a seperate file called Coveting ( a little more original )

The only problem here is remembering to keep those fututre pictures. I went to look up a couple sirens I remembered that I had seen and I went to create a more detailed file and guess what ?? YUP forgot to keep pictures for my self and now they are gone !!! Note to self — save pictures better….

Even the pictures of my own collection don't get always taken if I am really busy. At least those I can stop and take. But those that go by sometimes never come around again — argh !!!

What a knot head…..

 

Caveat emptor

gotta admit. Buying thru the internet has its risks. Case in point. Got in a great nickle silver combination whistle today. Tore open the package. —-Love nickle silver , slurp, drool…. Round whistle on one side — including the notched window even. Beaufort on the other side with rings around top and bottom. Looks to be a Hudson. …Then I roll it over and YECH, the ring is broken off and missing !!!

Now I gotta wrestle with the original seller and what do they ALWAYS say ?? I'm no whistle expert. How was I to know ?? —- is what they imply, isn't it ?? Oh really ?? You sell a car and don't notice the handle to the door is missing and there is a broken off spot there on the door ??????? Kind of a clue — ya think ????

Postage paid to get it here and postage paid to send it back — out of you know whos pocket !!!
How to prevent it ?? ALWAYS ask ahead >>>>>  are there any defects ?? I didn't this time, because the seller said "that it was all original condition, Been in a drawer for years".

The picture ( single ) only showed the good side. BOY I can't tell you how many times I have run into that !!! THEY KNOW when they hide the defects…………………Remember to ASK !!!!!!!

Another case in point. Also got in a DeCourcy escargot with one of his distinctive top rings. However roll it over and the bottom is dented. Couldn't see it in the well posed pictures. Now instead of a really nice version in nickel silver ( did I mention my passion for nick….) I gotta sell it off at cost or worse yet, BELOW cost and point out the defect !!! —- Why not send it back ??? Not worth the wrestling match this time.
 

MEA CULPA

Buy from reputable dealers or in person, otherwise….

CAVEAT EMPTOR

rain

well, got rained out of California and the show was put off till next weekened. So much for Sunny Cal !!! Almost left early to get there too and rechecked the weather, whew, that was close.

Oh well. more time to catalog whistles for the FOR SALE page πŸ™‚

For simplification we settled on just four levels of scarcity.

1) common
2) uncommon ( not very original I know )
3) rare
4) very rare ( yeah, the opposite )

Hopefully this will cover everything.

Beyond this is the description work…

Manufacturer
Circa
Price
Scarcity
Description

Again hoping to not leave out any essentials ?? Then there are the pix. The files contain mostly just plain shots that I took for record keeping only. So there may be some rather poor angles. Then I suppose there will be requests for closer or different angles ?? Oh well, gotta get them posted and just go from there.

trivia question : How many sizes of shotgun shell extractors are there ?? I know of three, 10,12,16 guage. Well,  with whistles integrated anyway. Are there others, more guages with whistles attached ?? ( just provoking you to write in. If you do I will post it πŸ™‚

 

 

teethers and rattles

what's a teether doing in this section ??

You know I really don't know !! For the record there are hundreds of teether and rattle whistle designs. Mostly silver. But seriously, who is going to blow the whistle ?? — The infant that is teething ?? Perhaps the nanny takes it away from the infant and blows the whistle to ???? Who ??? Sometimes there is no teether or rattle at all and that must be a nanny whistle ?? Again, who is the nanny calling ?? Perhaps it is the mother calling the father or nanny ??

Many times there are bells ( or rattles ) on the whistle/teether and I can see the entertainment there while chewing, if not the danger of choking on one of those small bells that came off,  as they usually did —  as many times they are for sale without some or all of the bells.

Then there is the actual chewing part — made of …..
Coral
Silver
Shell   
( mother of pearl )
Ivory
Bone
It would seem to me that if you ( the baby ) DID cut a tooth, wouldn't you run the risk of chipping your new tooth ?????????? I don't know.

Seems like a dangerous little item, but collectable they are  !! AND they many times have whistles, which brings them to our attention of course.

What is nice about them is that they are for the most part silver. So hallmarks were used on the older ones and that helps to date them and identify the maker. Some whistle collectors JUST collect  teether and rattle whistles. Perhaps there is a crossover to whistles from the overall catagory ??

Don't know that either.  

 

 

rhetoric

probably wondering ( or not ) why I ramble on about record keeping, tags, methods ad infinitum eh ?? Well hours later after starting today, I am still amazed at how I can have a whistle marked with the same number as another numbered whistle !!!!

Try as I may, I am constantly going down blind alleys and following lost numbers and finding whistles that have no record….know why ?? I didn't pay THAT much attention to it  ——- at first

 

Just trying to save ya'll some headaches later. Or even earlier I suppose.

Got it down to a science now….5 years later. Ready for this ??????

STEP ONE — record the whistle ( on the computor for me ) that I have ordered ( all internet now ) — details, details, details aaaand number it.

STEP TWO — write it on the wall dry erase board with date of order

STEP THREE —  it arrives and is PHOTOGRAPHED ( in groups of ten I highly reccomend )

STEP FOUR — picture is numbered after loading up onto the computor and filed.

STEP FIVE — whistle tagged

STEP SIX — marked as received in computor

STEP SEVEN — erased off board

The scary thing is that I could break down these steps into smaller steps !!! ARGH !!!!

Contrast that with buy 'em and pile them. Probably be somewhere in between. Me I gotta have all the details now. Believe me doing all these steps is a lot easier than retroactively building these records.

well,  still getting ready to sell off as many whistles as we can extricate from the boards. Hopefully come back from California a lot lighter, if not bleary eyed from record keeping for four days.

Now where was I ?? Oh, yeah, rhetoric…

 

progress

thought to update you on the website. Eeeeeeeever sooooo slooooow I know !!!! Going as fast as can be done I think without paying someone daily !!!!

It's not just that, we keep changing our minds !!! Improving things…. I hope πŸ™‚

So, as of late, refining our use of pictures a lot. We have decided to use ONLY our pictures that we have taken. 99% will be pictures from the Whistle Gallery reference collection itself. We felt that it was more honest with all the picture pirating going on these days. Besides that, it isn't as misleading. After all, if we used every picture that were stole from the internet or other collectors, you might assume that we actually owned the picture and the actual whistle too right ??

Yes, that means limiting what is out there for you to see on our website. However there are other sites that do this and you can go to them and see many more whistles that way. Keeps things simple.

As the collections page grows we are posting more contributions, please feel free to contact us to see how you display, catalog and access your collection.  Much of the internet traffic is looking at how to store and how to keep track. Sensible examples are so very helpful don't ya think ?? Hope so.

Building more material and ramping up the SPOTLIGHT section. Nothing showing right now obviously, but work is progressing in the back ground.

After a lot of thought we decided to integrate with Facebook too. Even at this early stage we are receiving over 200 hits a day. So to help things along the Blog will go directly to Facebook too and comments can be made and posted. As you may recall the site Blog was being attacked constantly by Bots with SPAM commenting and we had to disable the comments. Now we are freeeeeee ! No SPAM on Facebook. Emails have been trickling in already, so let's see where whistle collecting is going to go ??

A lot of enquiries about the For Sale section and we are working on it. We have a show to do next weekend in California so that will deplete us a bit. However, that project of pricing and listing is also moving on and we will be working on it this week. Trying to figure out a way not to be just a pricing guide for anyone to use. Hoping to be more than that. Probably will lose that battle !!!

Really though, more activity is better…. 

 

 

metropolitan police whistle

Yesterday we mused over what makes a police whistle — a police whistle…today we address the classic, almost iconic METROPOLITAN POLICE  whistle.

How did the name become so pervasive ?? Perhaps all countries are alike in this, certainly it is so in the states —- names get attached to items and almost BECOME those items.

For example, in the states when someone wants a tissue, they ask for a Kleenex. Or if someone wants some angled pliers, they ask for Channel locks. Perhaps you want to wear some blue jeans and you say Levis.

So it goes with the Metropolitan whistle. According to Collecting Police Whistles by Martyn Gilchrist, There was a competition to get the contract for the Metropolitan Police force ( i.e. London Police force )  for using whistles. The  whistle to use was won by Joseph Hudson's company back in the early 1880s. Guess what stamp was used right on the top front ??   YUP,

The Metropolitan
        
Police.

The name stuck. OK, weird but true >>>>>>>> it was then used by other police forces along with their particular force ALSO stamped on the front !!  Only now the word Police was moved to the bottom …… An example would be…..

    The Metropolitan
    Shropshire Police

What once was applied to the London Metropolitan Police only, now was used in other cities, counties, etc. !! Confusing ?? A little. Now add to this….

Prisons used the Metropolitan stamp above and the prison name below.
Fire brigades used the Metropolitan stamp above and their fire brigade below.
Railways used their the Metropolitan stamp above and their railway below
Asylums   ibid
Miltary      ditto

get the picture ?? Of course,  Metropolitan became a Trademark of Hudsons supplying those whistles.

Nothing wrong at all here guys, good enterprise really. However in the process, ANY tube shaped whistle stamped The Metropolitan whistle took on the ethereal qualities of ….THE Metropolitan Police whistle. Worse yet, a generic tube shaped whistle could easily be confused as being such.

In conclusion…..

Here is your test question to see how we did. In your travels you come across a whistle that says The Metropolitan.

Is it a genuine police whistle ??
Maybe, maybe not.
What would identify it to be actual police Issue whistle ??

—- the word Police, or the actual police force — make sense ??